I hear IRAN are in need of a good president….

Why not apply there???

I suggest people read up on:
Aeschylus, The Persians (Persai), performed in 472 BC
The Persians focuses on the popular Greek theme of hubris…. by blaming Persia’s loss on the overwhelming pride of its king at the Battle of Salamis….

All quite ironic really given some Iranian complaints over a recent Hollywood film…

If Britain is clever… time is on our side…. remembering that a confrontation over the nuclear issue is potentially unavoidable. We should learn from this - and the nature of the Iranian-theocracy threat….

Iranian HUBRIS is the key here….

Not exactly without historical precendent …. in that area of the world…

Needs expansion… in 1997 onwards people were faced with a fresh faced Blair… good for the country.

In the UK conservative party they were faced with ideological bad government - that wasn’t thinking about the good of the country.

The issue is things fluctuate in party politics… the lefts attempt to assert itself (the “defectors”) - will make Labour potentially unelectable… since as you say - the responsible people in the country realise that the independent nuclear deterent is a corner stone of our national defence.

Blair’s success has been he captured and held the middle ground… this is where elections are won…

Let’s see how things pan out from here…

I must say I agree about the defections. There is something about (that far left) the defectors that has an aura of extreme arrogance. They are blinded by a superior attitude that says “because I think peace - everyone else does” which is rubbish and extremely short sighted. Not only that it is IRRESPONSIBLE GOVERNMENT.

At the end of the day - I think Blair has actually been a very good (conservative) prime minister…. ironic as that sounds.
(as opposed to a BAD conservative party).

The issue is and something I recently recalled… on watching “the latest” propaganda - with the guys pointing to the maps…. (edited - with obvious prompting).

Also - on reading Robert Fisk’s IDIOTIC - The Independent headline today…

This isn’t a humiliation. Not at all.

This is a great reminder - for us Britain not to show HUBRIS..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris

“Hubris or hybris (Greek ὕβρις), according to its modern usage, is exaggerated self pride or self-confidence (overbearing pride), often resulting in fatal retribution. In Ancient Greek hubris referred to actions taken in order to shame the victim, thereby making oneself seem superior.”

Aristotle defined hubris as follows:
to cause shame to the victim not in order that anything may happen to you, nor because anything has happened to you, but merely for your own gratification. Hubris is not the
requital of past injuries; this is revenge. As for the pleasure in hubris, its cause is this: men think that by ill-treating others they make their own superiority the greater.

Britain must be careful to not allow itself to be drawn into a trap. Even with superior technology.

What we must do - is wait. Bide our time…. and when the dust settles, take remedial action - in a manner and at a time of our choosing.

Currently, Iran has the initiative. Lets wait awhile until Britain and her allies retake the initiative…

Then we’ll hear the theocracy squeal…

I hope I didn’t come off as sounding unappreciative of of the British/American alliance. Britain, in my humble opinion, is the only nation in Europe that still has will to use military power when needed.

I guess my point is that your continential allies can’t be counted on for much help (hell, German officers are suing in court over their role in Afghanistan and the French, well are just the French). Right now, if Britain needed to take unilateral action of some sort against Iran, it would be on a shoestring force.

While it is a good thing that Britain will have 2 large carriers in 10 years, the point is that you don’t have them now. And quite frankly, I don’t know if you could count on our help right now. The Democratic Party and the pacifist/communist/drugged-out left to which it is wedded have Bush at a great disadvantage and I don’t think he has the political will to help Britain out at the moment. That is sad, and Bush does owe Britain and Blair a great amount, but don’t count on collecting it at the moment.

Just saying…..

P.S. I was glad to see you guys voted to upgrade your nukes, but it did scare me that a large part of the Labor Party defected.

What is it with the left on both sides of the Atlantic that makes them think that they can disarm and that the bad guys won’t take advantage of that?

Notice?

Don’t worry most people realise that “bad eggs” exist in any large organisation.
The only way around that is oversight oversight and more oversight - with regard to prisoners.

Abu Ghraib was a failure of oversight. - i.e. looking over shoulders.
But I must add - that anyone held now (even RIGHTLY held) - occuses the US of torture…. since they believe it will speed their release. I don’t believe all these can be happening.

The politicians with oversight - McCain and others you mention themselves would certainly have blown the whistle on it by then - as to not would ensure they become responsible…….

But hey - we’re off topic again….

the issue is THE ILLEGALITY of Iran’s action…

By complete contrast, Alberto Gonzalez, author of the torture memos, seems a different kind of man altogether.
When we’re confronting nasty pieces of work like the hardliners in Iran, having people like that on our side really doesn’t help.

And the Iranian-theocracy should know that we’re onto them - in the bigger picture.

Also with the propaganda letters/video - it’s not fooling anyone here.

Also why should we apologise? When we weren’t in their waters????

I don’t see people being educated in any insitution in Britain to shout “death to Iran” …. by the way.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6515995.stm

There is institutionally encouraged hatred of the west there.

The taking of the marines - is indicative of that.

” … the Knights of the Round Table … “

And let’s not forget the Knights who say ‘Ni’.
Ours is truly a glorious history, M.

BSC: bert - if an actor wants to write an article on the evils of the West and the kindnesses bestowed upon us by Iran he has that right. Thanks to our rule of law. We certainly wouldn’t have that right in Iran. Keep your links to yourself. That link is deleted.

Terry Jones is a comedian, so he uses sledgehammer sarcasm. His point though is relevant to your post.
By contrast, your point about free speech in Iran is true but beside the point, and seems somewhat undercut by your editing my comment to delete the link.
Here’s the argument.
Basically, if we want to hold Iran to commonly-held standards regarding the treatment of prisoners, we need to take the lead in upholding those standards ourselves.
If instead common standards aren’t important because they restrict our freedom to impose our will on our enemies - fine, but then quit complaining.
Quite a few people are confused as to where they stand on this, and their commentary has shown this confusion.
I’d be interested in your response, but at the very least I hope you won’t delete this comment.
Best wishes, Bert

when I said:
“last years G8 summit at Gleneagles”… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/31st_G8_summit

I actually meant the G8 meeting at St Petersburg, Russia, on 17 July 2006…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yo,_Blair

Just remembered… and that this is indeed a case of spin being put on something… that was not what elements of the media said it was.

Since the looney’s take over the asylum at times…

Purring like a paper lion???? #1 ally????? THIS ISN’T A COMPETITION!

In saying that you give ammunition to people saying that Blair is a “poodle” which I doubt he is - Blair just better at seeing the long term bigger picture… for Britain - unlike some of the other ideologs in the EU. Hence moving more forces into Afghanistan… unlike other members…. (”the usual suspects”)

I’m sure Bush is thankful he’s had Blair around if anything as much for being “a sounding board” for things… last years G8 summit at Gleneagles shows that (but the media and the leftist lobbyests “spin” it the other way).

Personally, I see Hezbollah were gearing up to have a go at Israel in Lebanon last year. And Israel was certainly in it’s rights to respond. By-proxy games going on there…

Israel finds it hard maintaining the moral high ground however… due to the tactics employed by its enemies.

Blair’s managed to handle the politics of it all rather well. The media is just out to get him… for lack of a better target - THE ROYALS!!!
(We’re not all ideolog “socialists” here you know! - it’s just that the Blair government is better than any alternative in my view. I don’t like some of the back bench Labour MP’s or the Liberal Democrats. - but the Conservative policies simply weren’t good for the country - and the jury is still out on them for the time being I doubt they would have done any better than Blair in the past 10 years)…

PAPER TIGER?????????????????????????????!!!!

SEE THESE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FcXWZ0XVuw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6qHcd4imKk

STOP EQUATING THE “POLITICAL WAR” with IRAN currently with a “HOT WAR” … with fighting.

This is what causes certain criticisms of American’s military and viewpoint…
American people (or media) should view them not as “heroes” - BUT AS “PROFESSIONALS” - i.e. professional soldiers doing their duty and their job….

“cheesy” media in the UK doesn’t play well… it’s just the way we are…

I think this is why Britain has been more resiliant to the gradual drip drip effect on morale that has been seen in the US (that and the lower casualty rate I add…).

The US media doesn’t see that their forces are professionals and that getting killed or injured is a hazard of their job.

This is a cultural difference with the UK. All forces sign up of their own choice… and realise this themselves in the main.

Not to say we’ll abandon our servicemen - indeed quite the opposite in fact!!!

Anyway - we share more similarities with the US far more than differences. For this I am glad.

Paper tiger???? “England has great ale and soccer and Sun Page 3 Girls…but that’s about it.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhHqce3SVQw

I think you should have a think about that….

I don’t see many German bombers being readied - to bomb London currently…

Indeed, the threat is from ballistic missles - hence despite (the usual MORE VOCAL idiotic and irresponsible neo-communist? or whatever they are “peace protesters”) - I am pro-ballistic missile defence programs in Europe and the US.

But mind - I don’t subscribe to the mind numbing claims of the usual suspects that the US is not a good influence in the world on the whole….

If these people weren’t “protesting” about the US … they’d be causing trouble in some other way.

The Iron Duke (Wellington)… Waterloo ???
Lord Nelson ….. Trafalgar ???
Sir John Fieldhouse & Sir John Woodward … Falkland Islands ?

I suggest you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_military_history

Machiavelli and darthcrUSAderwt2007 points:
Our defense budget:
FY2007-8 - ranked 2nd (behind the US - which is the same as the next 10 combined….)
GBP £33.4 billion
USD $66.225 billion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_military

So your aware:
The EU does not determine INDEPENDENT SOVEREIGN MEMBER’S DEFENSE POLICY. That is up to each member. It is unlikely that this will change fundamentally in the next 20 years if ever due to the fact that the EU is NOT A FEDERAL STATE - it is an affliation of independent sovereign states.

Each nation merely makes it’s own contributions to the EU rapid reaction force (which we are a major contributor), and to the EU “ready battlegroups”. http://www.euractiv.com/en/security/eu-battlegroups/article-150151
Those are likely to be used primarily in Europe… we wish to see them used further - but THE FRENCH ARE AGAINST THIS.
(What do you expect?)

… And to NATO again behind the US we are probably the second largest contributor in terms of overall Hi-tech assets.

I also make the point - that the MUTUAL relationship we have with the USA is one where WE BOTH get something out of it… even if some of my (the more vocal but very misguided or extremely biased) country people don’t agree - it’s often because they are told by the vocal … NOT TO AGREE.

The alliance we have is smething I don’t wish to see the end of.

Either way - UK defense policy is determined in Westminster and will be for the forseable future.
Our recent defence policy: (see: the extension to the SDR…. the “2004 Delivering Security in a Changing World: Future Capabilities”) has a stated assumption that any large operation would be undertaken as part of a coalition. Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq (Granby, Desert Fox and Telic), Sierra Leonne etc may all be taken as precedent - indeed the last large scale military action in which the British armed forces fought alone was the Falklands War of 1982.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_military

and

http://www.britainusa.com/sections/articles_show_nt1.asp?d=10&i=41062&L1=41012&L2=41062&L3=1&a=22277

This has meant that in the early 2000’s Britain was “in a transition period”. I have personally been rather annoyed by “over-runs” in programmes which the government itself says it needs to do better. But these over-runs are seen in the US and elsewhere…

Britain is known to be about to embark on possibly one of the largest defense spending programs in it’s peacetime (if we are in such a thing?) history…

It is going to purchase the REPLACEMENT for TRIDENT…. and is going to purchase 2 super-carriers of a similar size to the US Nimitz/Ford (CVN-78) classes.

These two ships are expected to be named HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales. The two ships are due to enter service in 2012 and 2015 respectively. Their primary aircraft complement will be made up of F-35B Lightning IIs (BEING DEVELOPED JOINTLY WITH THE USA), and their ship’s company will number around 1000.

But a note to Machiavelli and darthcrUSAderwt2007 I am personally annoyed that we have converted - two Invincible class ships to amphibious invasion ships (we now have 3! plus two major supporting ships - (See HMS Albion”) so that now without OUR OWN CRUISE MISSILES we have no seaborne LONG RANGE striking or “power projection assets” until the two new ships are built and operational.

I’d say that along with the US - we are now the best “joint operations” orientated military in the world…

I’d end with this … if the US is going to war tomorrow… would you want us with you or not?

On that point I’ll leave you to make up your own minds…

Iran has sent a formal letter to the British Embassy in Tehran protesting about an alleged incident in Iraq, in which British troops are alleged to have surrounded an Iranian consulate and fired shots into the air.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1258576,00.html

This is the second time that this story has been put forward by Iran this week. When it first occured on Thursday - it was said by the UK MOD that there was apparently a British patrol “passing in the same street” and someone took a shot at them - and they didn’t return fire.

This Iranian statement - is merely an attempt at propaganda - an attempt to recycle a story that had no basis when it was first dealt with on Thursday.

Iran - stop trying to gain the moral high ground! You have absolutely no chance - you illegally took them and are threatening “legal action” against them individuals - BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT GETTING WHAT YOU WANT.

How on earth can they NOT be called “HOSTAGE”?